Functional Medicine optimum health podcasts prevent chronic disease Sleep Sleep Quality

How Sleep Temperature Improves Your Rest, with Tara Youngblood

Getting enough sleep is among the most essential issues we will do for our health, and optimizing your sleep temperature can have a serious impression on the quality of your relaxation. On this episode of Revolution Well being Radio, I speak with Tara Youngblood concerning the science of temperature regulation as a way of enhancing your sleep.

On this episode, we talk about:

  • How temperature regulation improves sleep
  • What’s improper with the best way we’re sleeping?
  • The advantages of sleeping colder
  • Optimal sleep temperature
  • How sleep temperature units work

Show notes:

Hey, everybody, it’s Chris Kresser. Welcome to a different episode of Revolution Well being Radio. This week I’m very completely happy to welcome Tara Youngblood. She is the founding father of ChiliPad, which is a device that has had one of many largest impacts of anything that I’ve ever tried for enhancing my sleep. And as you recognize, I’m all about enhancing my sleep. I feel getting good sleep is among the most necessary issues we will do to optimize our well being and stop and reverse disease. And that is, of all the things I’ve tried, undoubtedly one of the potent interventions. It’s so potent that I truly turned an investor in the company and really consider in what they’re doing.

So Tara’s spent over 10,000 hours learning the science of sleep since launching this company. And she or he has utilized her analytical expertise from her physics and engineering background to form the way forward for sleep-driven well being by making sleep straightforward and drug free. So we’re going to talk concerning the science of temperature regulation as a way of enhancing sleep, so there’s slightly hint there about what this system does, amongst many different subjects. And I hope you get so much out of the present. So let’s dive in.

Chris Kresser:  Tara, thanks so much for becoming a member of us. Pleasure to have you ever on the present.

Tara Youngblood:  Yeah, it’s great to be right here.

How Temperature Regulation Improves Sleep

Chris Kresser:  So let’s speak a bit of bit about your story. How did you get considering temperature regulation as a way of enhancing sleep? Perhaps not the first thing that folks think about when they consider how one can enhance their sleep. So how did that come about for you?

Tara Youngblood:  So, Todd and I are in enterprise together, my husband, and we have now brought over a hundred totally different merchandise to market. And proper concerning the time that Tempur-Pedic and Select Comfort have been talking about strain and that was actually an enormous thing, we thought, “Well, we should be able to adjust temperature.” And we type of began it with a comfort thing. Todd has all the time slept actually scorching; I wish to have a warmer mattress. And we often ended up with this wall of pillows in between us to separate our temperature so we could possibly be snug.

Chris Kresser:  Oh, yeah, I’m familiar with that.

Tara Youngblood:  Sure. So, and his uncle invented the waterbed, so we had kind of performed round with waterbeds rather a lot, clearly. So I feel it was a natural evolution to see what we might do to create these dual-zone temperatures. So it began, actually, with comfort, and it really, by buyer suggestions, it began coming again of like, “This is changing my life.” Individuals started monitoring it. And, like, “Wow, my resting heart rate is dropping. I’m getting more deep sleep.” And as these trackers got here on-line and actually began taking a look at what was occurring with this temperature, it’s sort of opened up this entire new window of, like, “Wow, this is really changing sleep, not just making people more comfortable. People weren’t waking up as much at night, and it was really making a difference.”

So I really, my background is in physics. I used to be a physical trainer, the sports coach for Todd’s soccer group. So type of a weird mix of interests there. And so I used to be like, I actually need to determine this out. There hasn’t been numerous analysis on what temperature has carried out in sleep as a result of it’s onerous to control the temperature for individuals. So if you begin wanting round, there are a number of. And the ones which are out there are a tremendous outcome. So one of the leading researchers right now’s Saper out of Harvard and he’s really coined the time period “sleep switch.” And temperature is a type of things that activate these neurons and helps put you to sleep and helps wake you up.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it sort of is sensible from an evolutionary perspective, which in fact we speak quite a bit about on this show. We advanced in an setting the place we’re sometimes sleeping on the cold floor or earth, not a very heat floor that was reflecting our heat back.

Tara Youngblood:  Yeah, so, part of the issue is our fantastic comfort mattresses come back they usually’ve acquired all this foam and man-made materials in it. However what they do is they mirror our warmth back at us. And our circadian rhythm does comply with that outdoors weather pattern as you described, where once the sun goes down, it tends to be cooler. And once the solar starts to return up it tends to warm up. And our own physique rhythm matches that. However these man-made materials are principally counteracting that and heating us up once we really need to be coolest.

Chris Kresser:  I all the time notice before I even knew lots about these things that one of many largest variations between a higher-quality mattress and a poorer-quality mattress was its potential to soak up heat and not mirror it back. Like, once I would travel and if I was in a rustic the place perhaps the beds weren’t as good, I might all the time get up super scorching and it will really intrude with my sleep. And so I’ve been aware of this for a while, even earlier than I turned an investor in Kryo and ChiliPad and began using it myself. It’s one thing that has been used to sort of differentiate between the standard of mattresses.

Tara Youngblood:  Yeah, that breathability in a mattress, that potential to maneuver the air and get that circulation round you, actually modifications relying what material is in that bed.

Chris Kresser:  So what’s the analysis specializing in now? You mentioned that guy at Harvard. Are they taking a look at like how temperature affects totally different sleep cycles, REM and deep sleep? And sleep period and quality and all of that? How are they approaching it?

Tara Youngblood:  So, most of his research proper now which are in mice, they usually’re taking a look at mice with the ability to truly go into non-shivering thermogenesis, which is admittedly pretty chilly in mice. It’s virtually that borderline hibernation state. Once you’re in deep sleep, you truly don’t register temperature in the sense of consolation or whether or not you’re going to wake up.

In REM sleep and lightweight sleep you do, so that’s when in case you are too scorching, you’ll wake up in those. When you get too chilly as properly, you’ll be able to get up in these. So there’s a delicate stability, at the very least for individuals in managing that. And numerous our patent-pending IP that we’ve is around that, manipulating of these sleep cycles of really optimizing for deep sleep. Because that’s actually the place the chilly makes a huge impact for sleep.

What’s Incorrect with the Method We’re Sleeping?

Chris Kresser:  Right. So we’ll come back to that. I have some questions and observations from my own use that I need to run by you. However let’s back up somewhat bit and speak in a more basic sense about what’s fallacious with how we’re sleeping in the trendy world. And temperature is obviously an enormous a part of that.

Tara Youngblood:  Properly, some of it starts with the truth that we’re not outdoors. We’re not in a variation of temperature throughout the day. We’re in these temperature-controlled environments for many of our time. So there’s no natural dip. There’s no signaling to the hypothalamus, to those ,neurons we have been talking about of saying, “Okay now it’s time to go to sleep.” We’re maintaining lights.

All these things around us are kind of giving us a man-made sunrise or sundown that’s method later than we might normally anticipate it to be. So all the natural triggers will not be occurring. And so, by holding that consistency through the day, it’s really type of messed us up to have the ability to use temperature naturally as it will cool off through the day to trigger us to go to sleep.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, it’s simply another unintended consequence of the fashionable world, right. And there are obviously some benefits to the best way we’re dwelling now versus how we did in our pure setting. But I’m all the time struck by these unintended consequences. The things we might not have predicted would happen from the enhancements that we’ve made in our high quality of life.

Tara Youngblood:  Yeah. A number of the those that endure from insomnia, 98 % of the time their circadian rhythm, that drop in core physique temperature, shouldn’t be occurring when it ought to at night time. And that’s one of the the reason why they’ve such a hard time falling asleep.

Chris Kresser:  And why is cooling the temperature of the mattress versus simply cooling the ambient temperature in the room necessary?

Tara Youngblood:  So when you get in that bed, most of us anyway like to tug up the covers and we insulate ourselves. We run roughly 98 levels, give or take on the individual, and you’ve got all these foams and all those issues that make us snug. And so we warmth up this little cocoon, our little cave to be a lot hotter even than our body temperature. We’re naturally, we’re engines. We’re creating heat in that setting. And so whatever temperature you set your room at night time helps us some. But all of that warmth usually has to vent by means of your head.

So a lot of people end up flipping the pillows in order that they feel like their head’s scorching. However most of that’s just, that’s the one place your physique can vent that warmth. So the best way the ChiliPad works, and OOLER as nicely, is by operating these coils of water persistently at whatever temperature you set beneath you. You’re principally creating a minimum of thermal neutral to cold. So even if it’s simply neutral and you’re not in a position to add any warmth to the equation and also you at the least hold it from heating up, for some people who’s sufficient. That’s why they set it warm and it’s okay. Nevertheless it’s still cooler than their physique temperature.

However for lots of us, we’re used to that ambient temperature. So if 68, 70, whatever you’re setting a room at, we really need that to take care of that very same. As a result of our body’s gotten used to it. After which it’ll truly do its core physique temperature drop of the two levels it will normally do.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, I’m familiar with this from surfing. It’s fascinating, like go to a place like Costa Rica where the water’s 80 levels, which is sort of heat, it feels quite heat, however I still get the benefits of chilly, because 80 degrees is cooler than 98 levels. My physique temperature and being within the 80 diploma water for a big time period nonetheless has that influence on my body.

Tara Youngblood:  Yeah, we do see, we’re taking a look at metabolism in a few of the research we’re beginning. And the early outcomes really show that there is some metabolism increase that you simply’re getting. You’re no less than getting part of that restoration of simply circulation and metabolism that you would just like being in slightly bit colder pool. That cold temperature does seem to be serving to your metabolism.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, that was truly going to be my subsequent query. As a result of I was considering there have to be some metabolic profit there. As a result of as you have been speaking concerning the drop in physique temperature, I was serious about the research on cold thermogenesis and metabolic benefit. So it’s good to know that there’s some work being achieved there thus far. As a result of that simply is sensible to me that that may occur, and given my expertise as properly simply in swimming and surfing in even warm water, and the way much that promotes weight reduction.

Once I’m browsing quite a bit, I have to eat large amounts of energy just to maintain the load on. And I do know from a lot of people who are swimming and browsing and capable of lose quite a little bit of weight that approach. So what are a few of the other therapeutic advantages of sleeping colder, at the very least not heat? What you’re saying, you get the benefits, not just from cold, however even just sustaining your normal body temperature as an alternative of going up.

Excessive-quality sleep is a must have for good well being, and optimizing your sleep temperature can go a great distance towards making certain you get sufficient shut-eye. Learn how temperature impacts your sleep on this episode of RHR. #healthylifestyle #wellness #chriskresser

The Advantages of Sleeping Colder

Tara Youngblood:  So one of many type of best things to take a look at is, temperature is a type of issues that gets crazy pretty shortly. That’s one of the causes you run a fever if you get a chilly or aren’t feeling nicely.

So temperature is a symptom of hassle for plenty of totally different illnesses or sicknesses. So one of many earliest benefits is simply helping to take care of thermal neutral whereas someone’s going by way of that. So we have now cancer sufferers which might be going by means of chemotherapy and even post-chemotherapy, because it messes with their thermostat so badly. We’ve got a research ongoing with menopausal ladies. Early outcomes are that in the event you keep that coolness all through the night time, they keep asleep. They actually have less scorching flashes through the day as nicely.

Diabetes, MS, a variety of those illnesses individuals wrestle with sustaining their temperature. However for the typical consumer, they’re going to see, in case you’re monitoring it, your HRV, that heart fee variability, your resting heart price, these are all very easy to see. These type of readiness scores in the sense of how properly you are feeling, how properly you recuperate, how you are feeling like you possibly can work out the subsequent day. How you are feeling like you’re going to have a cognitive load or reminiscence load for those who’re learning or whatever. All those measurements is enchancment throughout the board in all of them.

Chris Kresser:  How about the good thing about saving your marriage? I assume once I read a number of the evaluations on the ChiliPad, it’s humorous to learn a few of them. Because you get lots of people say, “Oh, my gosh,” and this was true for, not for us and to the purpose of our marriage being in peril, nevertheless it’s pretty widespread in a couple, one individual will sleep scorching and one individual will sleep cold. And there’s no really easy solution to deal with that.

Tara Youngblood:  No, there isn’t. Truly, my favorite evaluation in the intervening time was a lady that defended her ChiliPad to the point where she would trade her husband earlier than the ChiliPad. So I feel that helps.

Chris Kresser:  That’s an excellent testimonial to have.

Tara Youngblood:  Within the odd category. You don’t advocate retaining the ChiliPad over husbands. We’re not saying that.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, yeah.

Tara Youngblood:  Nevertheless it’s undoubtedly funny.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, right. There’s no want to choose. Just get two.

Tara Youngblood:  Precisely.

Chris Kresser:  Proper. Or one that covers each side of the mattress. Yeah, I imply it’s fascinating. Like for me, my wife’s temperature doesn’t appear to be as a lot of a problem for her sleeping, however for me it undoubtedly is. And so, and I are likely to sleep scorching. Truly, I have a combined sort of sample. Like I undoubtedly go to bed scorching and used to are likely to wake up in the earlier a part of the night time feeling scorching. And then I might get up, after which I would really like throw off the covers.

So I simply had the sheet on. Or typically not even the sheet. After which I’d get up at 4 within the morning really cold. And it was simply really difficult as a result of no matter, going to mattress, whatever temperature was proper once I went to mattress was not right afterward in the night time. And we will speak a bit bit extra concerning the difference between the ChiliPad and the OOLER, and it will type of point to that. But I even found it troublesome to use the primary iteration of the ChiliPad as a result of the temperature that was good for me going to mattress was not good for me at three or four in the morning. It was too chilly. And so does every individual have an optimal sleep temperature? And is it the case that that would change throughout the night time for various individuals?

Optimal Sleep Temperature

Tara Youngblood:  So, most people do change throughout the night time. That part is fairly universal. And that’s part of that, as you begin to fall asleep, your core physique temperature needs to drop. And about 4:00 in the morning, relying on once you go to sleep and once you wake up, that core body temperature is about two degrees colder than it began at. So in the event you started at 98, you’re about 96.

And again, there’s variation on that relying on the individual. But then it actually needs to start out warming up. It needs to get closer to that morning dawn heat. It’s expecting that. So if it’s still actually cold, that’s where you’re going to wake up from the cold often. Since you’re not in deep sleep. Most of your deep sleep happens at first of the night time. The primary few cycles are very heavy on deep sleep, in order that’s when it feels really good to be cold then.

But then within the morning, your cycles are typically heavier on REM sleep and you feel that temperature, and that’s the place it’s going to need to wake you up if it’s too cold. And a few of that basically modifications throughout life. Ladies, particularly, between being pregnant, menopause, even month-to-month hormonal cycles will change and range. And totally different ladies could have totally different outcomes on that. Males could have kind of, seem to have more of a profile. Whatever they start at, they have a tendency to remain that means till they get to a a lot older age where they’re having totally different sleep parameters. And a few of that comes from everyone loses deep sleep as they age, sometimes.

A 20-year-old may be getting kind of 20 to 30 % and an 80-year-old might get none. So a few of that additionally goes back to that temperature realization of should you’re not getting any deep sleep, in case you’re not in search of that coldness due to your age, you might really feel cold and you might wake up. So it’s your decision a heat ChiliPad to keep you heat.

How Sleep Temperature Units Work

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, that is sensible. So let’s speak a bit bit concerning the units, the ChiliPad and then the OOLER. And my understanding, the OOLER, which I’ve been making an attempt out lately, and thanks for sending that unit to me to attempt, as a result of it really made an enormous distinction for my capacity to use it successfully because I am a type of individuals who skilled that temperature shift perhaps much more significantly than common. And the power to schedule has been a recreation changer for me. So inform us just a little bit concerning the OOLER.

Tara Youngblood:  Yeah, so the OOLER for me was a very huge distinction. To Todd clearly, he sleeps scorching in a method that he might just about set it and if he has all of it night time on the similar temperature, it doesn’t appear to hassle him the same approach. I actually need to still go into bed into a comparatively warm mattress, someplace south of physique temperature, but still hotter than room temperature. I need to snuggle in, but I nonetheless need it cold or I’ll wake up in the midst of the night time. And I do love proper after 4:00 being just a little bit warmer. The opposite function of OOLER that I actually like is the nice and cozy awake.

Chris Kresser:  Yes.

Tara Youngblood:  It’s a patent-pending function that’s superb, and again it mimics that circadian rhythm. But waking up that means, regardless of the place you’re in your sleep cycle, it just naturally, you wake up and also you’re like, “Oh, it’s time to wake up.” And again, it’s just a little little bit of that bump in your core physique temperature. There’s sufficient of a variation in temperature that it causes that change, that sleep change to show again to awake.

Chris Kresser:  So perhaps we should always again up just a little bit right here and just describe the system and the way it works. I understand we just dove proper into the science and the finer ideas and tips for find out how to use it. However I feel perhaps even people who are listening won’t know precisely what we’re speaking about. So for those who might simply give a sort of primary overview of what it’s and how it works and what the options are, that might be superior.

Tara Youngblood:  Yeah. So the ChiliPad and OOLER, they both start with water. So water’s 25 occasions simpler at cooling than air. So we do get, “Well, what about a fan? What about sort of that air conditioning feel?” You’re not going to place your hand in boiling water, however you’ll be able to type of put your hand in an oven is how we take a look at it. So we’re taking a look at taking away that thermal load and really with the ability to have an effect on that core physique temperature.

So we’re capable of change off of ambient temperature about 12 degrees, typically extra, depending on the temperature. So what happens is we’ve got a mattress pad that goes on, you possibly can have it go on one aspect of the bed. Or you’ll be able to have it two zones for each side of the bed and then you’ve got two management models. But we principally have water circulating via the mattress. So there’s, neither unit has EMFs inside the bed in any respect. So it’s simply water tubes circulating water, sort of like a radiator does in your automotive. But for you, the human physique. So it actively maintains the temperature that you simply set it at.

ChiliPad uses a distant; that’s the legacy product. You set your remote just like your normal thermostat in your home the place you’d set it and overlook it, and it’s all one temperature until such time as you progress the dial. ChiliPad sort of works like that as you described. It’s one temperature and it runs that method all night time. For some individuals, the truth is, it’s shocking to me, they are very excited to only have the remote and it’s simple and straightforward.

OOLER, then again, is extra just like the nest, the place you’re capable of program it. You’re capable of utilize the power and temperature, type of scheduling to actually match your rhythm. It’s just a little extra interactive with the app. You’re capable of modify the fan velocity. ChiliPad has one fan velocity. It runs on a TEC chip with a heat sync. So there’s a small amount of noise. But the OOLER permits you to have three totally different speeds on that fan. It additionally has a UV lamp in it for cleaning the water and just a few of those little upgrades. Most of it’s customer feedback that we’ve gotten through the years, that we’ve type of put that into the OOLER unit.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, I really appreciated those upgrades. The unit is certainly, not solely quieter, the sound is more like white noise to me, to my ear.

Tara Youngblood:  Yeah.

Chris Kresser:  It’s not as intrusive,, and the scheduling, I’ll describe how it works for people who are listening. Because it was such an enormous game-changer for me. Principally, you’ll be able to set, connect it to the app, and join your telephone to the unit. After which you’ll be able to set a time for it begin cooling. That was an enormous improvement. As a result of with the ChiliPad, you needed to keep in mind to show it on before mattress.

So this now, the machine will turn on by itself and start cooling before I even go up to my bedroom so that it’s prepared. After which if I set it at, let’s say 64, which is the temperature that I’m using to go to sleep, then I can set another time level for nevertheless far forward of once I’m going to mattress to start out growing the temperature. So I feel I’ve chosen two more time factors between once I go to mattress and when I’ve the nice and cozy wake function occurring. Perhaps one at like three in the morning and one at 4 within the morning. And I’ve simply set it a bit of bit warmer.

So I feel it goes up to 65 at three and then, like, 66 or 67 at four. After which I’ve the nice and cozy wake at, like, 70 or one thing like that. And that, I’ve been tweaking and fiddling with it slightly bit. I’m unsure I totally have it yet, however that has, I’m very near being there. Because that seems to be actually great for me. And the app, I imply I can just maintain customizing and tweaking it if I have to, which is absolutely cool. After which I feel you talked about this briefly, however there’s one other mat coming with the OOLER, is that right?

Tara Youngblood:  Yeah. So the mat’s advanced in an incremental means the place we’ve got a bit of totally different material on it, with a water-proof layer on the bottom. We’ve not likely had leaks, however it’s simply a type of things that folks have expressed considerations about and want to have. Some individuals have a water-proof layer on there already.

So this type of combines that in there. It additionally has some far-infrared materials in it, so you get just a little little bit of that far infrared healing occurring on the similar time. Really our push is to make sleep the way forward for well being, and by putting that far infrared there, it’s just a bit additional burst of muscle recovery and different recovery sort of assist push that forward.

Chris Kresser:  Cool. And I know that so far as I know, you’re the one company that’s doing this right now. Are there some other, anyone else on the market making an attempt to attack this temperature regulation area?

Tara Youngblood:  Yeah, so, we’ve pending IP and some IPA that covers a fair quantity of this area. There’s a new mattress coming out from Eight Sleep. It doesn’t have the identical degree of temperature efficacy, and that’s one of many things that we proceed to push with ChiliPad is with the ability to manage that thermal load in such a method that we will have an effect on core body temperature. And so it actually stays extra in that, just a little bit more snug category of there’s some temperature regulation. However it’s not managed to actually match thermal load.

And that’s really what makes the large difference for that deep sleep quantity. So we’re seeing with ChiliPad customers and now OOLER customers that deep sleep quantity is ready to double or, like, in the case of my father, who’s 80, he would normally not be getting any deep sleep, or little or no. And he’s capable of nonetheless get that 20 % number. So he’s a guy with arthritis and another points, and what it does for ache and restoration for him is a tremendous difference for him to truly get deep sleep. Which is actually remarkable at his age.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, I mean, that’s value it alone. It’s unimaginable. I have an Oura ring and I monitor my sleep. And I’ve finished tons and plenty of totally different sleep interventions through the years. And deep sleep is my largest problem and I’ve been capable of in all probability double it pretty persistently, particularly now that I’ve the scheduling and I’ve been capable of type of work out the rhythm.

And, I mean, that’s just, it’s onerous to overstate the value of that, because so much happens in deep sleep that we’d like for well being, from tissue regeneration and repair to decision of irritation to gut therapeutic. The record goes on and on. So I feel it’s pretty superb what you guys have accomplished. I do know, I imply, everyone that I’ve turned on to this ChiliPad and now the OOLER has been, had an outstanding expertise with it. It’s been pretty transformative. So because of both you and Todd for doing this necessary work in getting this on the market.

Tara Youngblood:  Yeah, nicely, we do it really for the testimonials. We get calls and emails and letters frequently from individuals the place it’s really modified their life. As I stated earlier, we didn’t go into this considering it will be as transformative as it’s. As an intervention, you pretty much set it up and perhaps you tweak your schedule or you set your temperature. However within the scheme of things, there’s no willpower, there’s no remembering to take it, there’s no unwanted effects.

Once we do studies, it’s virtually humorous once we lay out the parameters of, like, there’s no unwanted effects. This is not something that you must do. So once we do the, there’s NIBR tips it’s a must to lay out, like there’s no unwanted side effects for this. There’s no really troublesome issues. Truthfully, we pair with Oura for lots of our studies. And the tough part is establishing their rings and getting them began. However once individuals sleep on it, we’ve got a satisfaction assure. But we get so few back. And other people typically call it being hooked on it. They will’t sleep with out it.

Chris Kresser:  I do know, it does make travel sort of a bummer.

Tara Youngblood:  I know. Then the subsequent evolution should embrace a travel one because we get that all the time.

Chris Kresser:  It’s true.

Tara Youngblood:  That’s the trickiest part. Nevertheless it does seem to vary your sleep habits. So a lot of people that have slept on it commonly nonetheless get some profit once they travel, as a result of their sleep is simply more constant.

Chris Kresser:  Yeah, yeah. I feel that’s true. And once you’re capable of financial institution up good deep sleep for some time in a row if you’re at residence, then you definitely’ll be extra resilient and capable of stand up to a number of nights of less-than-ideal sleep too if you’re traveling.

Tara Youngblood:  Yeah. And as you mentioned that the long-term health effects, I feel the research continue to return out on deep sleep being hooked up to Alzheimer’s and reminiscence loss and autoimmune and just stress recovery. So to me the impression of with the ability to do something simple like that is, it’s actually heartwarming once we get that sort of feedback.

Chris Kresser:  Nice. Properly, Tara, thank you so much for joining me on the present. And where can individuals study more concerning the OOLER and decide one up if they need to do this?

Tara Youngblood:  Yeah, so we’re within the B8ta shops. There’s some of those around the nation if you wish to contact and feel it. But the easiest method is probably simply to go to our website. And that’s

Chris Kresser:  Great, nicely, thanks again for joining us on the show and keep up the good work.

Tara Youngblood:  Nice, thanks for having me. It’s been nice being here.

Chris Kresser:  Okay, everyone, thanks for listening. Ship in your questions to, and we’ll speak to you next time.

Do you sleep scorching or chilly? Have you thought-about utilizing tech to optimize your sleeping temperature? Comment under and let me know.